Monday, November 06, 2006

He Said/She Said: Alice Likes 'Em Ugly, But not THAT Ugly

I’m not sure if many of you know this, but the plethora of content you see on this site may never have come to fruition were it not for my good friend Alice. The funny part, of course, is that a year ago I had never even spoken to her. I had read a post she had done on casual sex that was linked by The IJC (the only blog I read at the time) and had asked her how to go about setting one up. She replied in a polite, professional manner, and the rest is history. We exchanged emails about her life and what was going on in it which lead to text messages which lead to phone calls which lead to me being at her birthday dinner in New York in May. And despite the clandestine love affair that so many claim it to be, I can safely say that Alice and I are really no more than friends. I’m much too good looking to be the type of guy she’d date anyway.

I don’t say this because Alice is not an attractive girl, but because she, by her own admission, rarely dates guys over a 5. Her post today (and if it’s not up Monday, it should be by tomorrow) deals with her dating guys she does not find attractive. Apparently she has found herself in a situation where she has been going out with a guy who is totally “smitten” with her, but with whom she cannot get past second base because she doesn’t find him attractive. And wants to know if this makes her shallow.

Just like sexual compatibility, physical attraction really is necessary to have a functional relationship. There are people out there, mostly male, who have extremely high appearance criteria that are more often than not unreachable. So while I would much rather be going home to a girl who looked like Marisa Miller every night, I am well aware that girls like that are out of my league and therefore must aim a little lower. This is not to say I’m settling, it is to say that I can save myself a lot of loneliness and sexual frustration by dating someone who does not look like a supermodel. But there is a line of attraction which must be reached.

I couldn’t date a fat girl. Period. I would just look at her and find her physically repulsive, not to mention being embarrassed to be seen with her in public. Same with an overly homely girl. Some, especially my best friends back home, described my first girlfriend as very plain. Now, this may have been the case to them, but her sexual skill more than compensated for her physical shortcomings, and she was certainly not UNattractive. The point is that while she was certainly far from hot, she was attractive enough to me to be able to date despite the disappointment of many others. But I found her attractive enough. Like I said, if I thought she was ugly, good sex just would not have gotten it done.

Alice also talks about why she continues to hang around with this guy. Apparently he adores her and makes her feel good about herself whenever they are together. While this is certainly a nice thing, you are more apt to get that adoration from someone who you are better looking than. It only reasons that the uglier of the two would have to treat the better looking one like a God in order to fend off attractive competition. This is why I, much like Alice, am really only capable of dating people who I think are less attractive than myself. It causes a frustrating contradiction when you look back and realize you’ve never dated anyone you considered “hot,” but I guess it beats feeling like you are at a disadvantage.

So, no, you are not shallow for not being more physical with someone who is, for all intents and purposes, perfect aside form their physical appearance. Some people can look past it, but as long as you are not being overly picky, you are not a bad person for demanding some level of physical attraction. Just don’t string him along lest he get the wrong idea. I’m sure you love the adoration, but you are only tying this less-attractive person’s stomach in knots. Let him know you like him as a friend, but you just aren’t into him in that way. If he chooses to keep pursuing you, then it is his fault. Otherwise you just may come off looking shallow, which is certainly not the case.


At 8:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Short but good post, and permit me to ramble on a bit.

What you wrote makes sense. Hard to be with someone that you don't want to get physical with. You just simply can't.

But what we all should remember is this: different people have different criteria for what attracts them. A big guy with long hair and tattoos and earrings would gross me out completely and I could never date him - but I certainly could date a skinny five-foot guy with glasses if he made me happy (and I HAVE.) Some girls have the opposite criteria that I do. I don't think I'm less superficial than they are, but on other criteria, I am more open minded. I'd prefer someone to be, say, 5-5 instead of 5-1, but I'm not going to say that I would never date a guy shorter than I am, because I have been in relationships with them and loved it. The key is to keep an open mind about some things. That's the difference between being honest with yourself and being overly picky.

Similarly, if you honestly have never been attracted to a fat women, probably it'll never happen. But it's good that you dated a girl you really liked, even though she wasn't a supermodel. People you like can become MORE attractive to you, if they start out being attractive ENOUGH.

You say you'd never date a fat woman because you're never attracted to them, and that's fair. What isn't fair is guys who try to say that they wouldn't date a fat woman because of all complex intellectual reasons. Bullshit! Those same guys would date Paris Hilton, despite HER complex issues. The real reason they don't date fat women is because they are simply not attracted to them, for the most part. Some guys try to hide behind "Oh, they don't accept personal responsibility for their health," but they, in turn, are not accepting personal responsibility for their choices. Those same guys will add, "Yes, I know some girls are better at controlling their weight than others, and some girls are a little overweight for medical reasons"...yes, well, why is it that you don't give ANY girls the benefit of that doubt, if you know that to be true?

Then there's another issue: some guys consider anything other than anorexic to be fat, and that's going to end up hurting them. Sometimes you have to be a little open minded. Sometimes a guy will look at a girl and say to me, "She's fat," and I can't believe they think so.

So you wouldn't date a fat girl. But there is a line between Monica Lewinsky Fat, and Fat Oprah Fat. How fat is fat?

At 8:18 PM, Blogger imaginaryconversations said...

Good post. I agree with everything, and especially not leading guys along. I'm very direct these days - I tell it like it is to guys (I'm a magnet for nice guys for some reason), and I think that's the right thing to do.

At 10:18 PM, Anonymous melissa said...

I totally agree, I like it the best when I feel that the person I'm dating matches me on the attractive scale.... What I have noticed about myself is that they all must have a strong jaw line, a weak chin is my deal breaker...and of course they have to be taller than me.

At 10:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the last line of this post misses something. you can get along great with someone, and find them good-looking, and still not be attracted to them. Sometimes there is something else going on that's pretty subtle. There was a guy who liked me in college who was very handsome, smart, nice, but there were little things he did, just harmless mannerisms, that made him unattractive to me. Then I realized it - he had the same mannerisms as my little brother! I like my bro, but don't want to kiss him.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that there is sometimes a diff between being attracted to someone and finding them good-looking.

There are good-looking convicts, and I wouldn't date them.

At 8:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


You need to ban all of the other anonymous posters. I am the one and only anonymous poster. The only people who are going to get offended by this are fat people and/or ugly people.

My theory is that 75% of the world is ugly. Don't believe me, next time you are driving, look at the people in the cars next to you. It looks like a damn Star Trek convention out on the roads. Or, sit in a mall for a good hour or so. You will think Halloween is a daily holiday.

I was born into the 1 % range of obnoxiously good looking people so fortunately I don't have this problem.

Have a great day.


At 9:15 AM, Blogger Virgle Kent said...

I date way outside of my league, life is too short not to. At the same time I only date (girlfriend) twice a year. The rest of the time is spent being lazy and banging gutter slut fat chicks…


At 9:38 AM, Blogger Rachel said...

While initial attraction is important don't discount a great personality.
I dated a guy when I was in my early 20's that initially I thought was "kinda cute". The more I got to know him and the more time I spent with him, the more attractive he became to me.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened between us if he hadn't been in the military and sent to Egypt.
We still keep in touch after 10 years and right now he is in Iraq. I haven't heard from him since the beginning of September and I pray for him every day.
Anyway, back to the subject. Looks and/or attaction are important initally but in the end looks fade and you better have something else to make you attractive to the opposite sex.

At 9:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The comment above only applies if you are fat and ugly.

At 10:11 AM, Blogger Rachelle said...

Interesting post coming from a guy. I've found that a lot of females resort to dating below them in physical appearance - myself included - for the security. I didn't know a lot of guys did it. In fact I thought it was the opposite. I feel like society is full of unbalanced couples, where the girl is a lot hotter than the guy.

I just figured there were a lot more hot girls in the world than hot guys. That's how it is in my world anyway.

At 11:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know, i'd have to say my taticts are pretty much the oppsite to this. i find myself either with people in my own league or wanting someone out of my league.
in your own league is great because you don't feel really ugly around them and you don't really have to compete that much.
i have psychoanalised myself quite a bit as to why i like people hotter than i am & i think it boils down to "they're so hot i can never talk to them thus i never get let down."

then again, i also don't get laid that much either. i need to learn how to go after people in my own league and stop being attracted to people too hot for me.

At 11:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it should be reiterated that people can become more attractive as you get to know them. As long as you're not grossed out by them.

For some reason, I'm not able to post on Alice's entry today, but she needs to take the pressure off herself and be honest with the guy that she really likes him, but for some reason isn't 'feeling it.' Who knows - maybe she will feel it someday, maybe she won't. It's not always purely because of looks.

At 11:24 AM, Anonymous Playtah said...

I'm going to have to agree with Rachel on this one - initial attraction is very important, but even if they seem so-so now, your perception of them can drastically improve once you get to know them, and thus you can become even more attracted to them physically.

I don't think it's shallow to want physical attraction, but I think it's important to realize that attraction can grow as you get to know someone...eventually the "6" may be a "9" to you.

At 12:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bullshit. Attraction can't grow...Ask people who have tried that before. It does not work.


At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Cedar said...

I think life likes to slap us upside the head whenever we make definitive declarations. I used to date and was primarily only attracted to freakishly tall guys--like 6 foot 4 and over, who were skinny, preferably sported tattoos, piercings etc and were musical in some respect. I ended up falling in love with a guy who's my same height (5'7"), totally straight-laced and tone-deaf. You can't always choose who you fall for.

Oh, and I second the first question posed to you--you reference fat a lot, but how fat is fat? Please use some celebrities to illustrate your point.

At 3:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon1, by your post, you are fat, ugly, ignorant, and a bad judge of your own looks.

At 3:45 PM, Blogger Betty said...

Dude, I don't like the title. I didn't say he was ugly, I just said he wasn't my type.

At 3:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh no, the other big bad anonymous poster called me fat and ugly, boo hooh...

What's the matter, can't take it?

Poor baby need a tissue?

At 6:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes, i do need one, anon1...please take one of the sticky ones from the large pile under your twin bed.

At 8:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you use dirty, used tissues? You are a bigger pig then I originally thought.

At 10:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh no, the other big bad anonymous poster called me a pig, boo hooh...

At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Way to copy me. I see you have nothing original to say. Stop posting here; you add to the stupidity that alread exists.


At 3:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

...yes, most of it coming from you.

Tell ya what, if you stop posting here, I promise that I will, too. Of course, I post things that are relevant and intelligent, and you just call everyone you disagree with "fat." And yet, you can't possibly give up that chance to belittle everyone. Go back to the gym and pump your head up some more.

At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once again, very original fatty. Stop posting here, seriously.


At 5:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't you BOTH stop posting here? Or at least Anon 1, who seems to have a lot of weight issues.


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